Hello everyone, this is Stephanie.
Hayakawa writes of “noise for noise’s sake”, presymbolic expression, and human tone of voice. In that same key, so to speak, music (in any culture) waxes and wanes in perpetual fluctuation based off of the human emotions. Personally, I consider music to be a language of emotional and psychological expression. If you listen to the song “Iris” by the Goo Goo Dolls, you might say that the combination of the lead singer’s desperate tone and the violins is quite ‘powerful’, without any directives indicating so at all; likewise, Yo-yo Ma’s vivacious duets with violins in the piece IB may sound ‘light’ and ‘playful’, when no mention of liveliness was ever portrayed in written or spoken language. Therefore, I believe music is a form of presymbolic expression; the implications of words (if words are at all utilized in the piece) are irrelevant to the meaning articulated behind the notes. I’m curious to know what everyone else thinks on this topic.
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11 comments:
Christy G:
Steph, I completely agree with you. Right now I'm a little bit obsessed with the song "Dog Problems" by The Format. It sounds almost innocent and whimsical with its trumpets and trombones yet it slows down and becomes more serious and passionate before speeding back up again. Becuase of this, its 'sing song' rhythm seems almost sarcastic to me, and although I have no idea what the words mean I feel like I totally understand the song in my own way (I'm sure other people interpret it differently). Whether the song was in English or a language completely foreign to me, its instruments, tune, and tempos would still have the same affect on me everytime listened to it. Becuase of this, I agree that music is a type of presymbolic expression that, like any type of art, can powerfully convey its meaning without the use of words.
I agree with you that music can represent human emotion along with a huge assortment of other things. Thinking about this, one of the most obvious pieces of music that represent something are the Four Seasons by Vivaldi. However, I disagree that music is a form of presymbolic expression, but rather it is a form of symbolic expression. No where in his book does Hayakawa limit symbolic expression to words; he simply states that, "... language is the most highly developed, most subtle, and most complicated," (Hayakawa 16). I feel that music is very symbolic from the basic (like major scales sounding "happy" and minor scales sounding "sad") to the very complex.
I'm split between what Arka and Steph have said about whether music is presymbolic or symbolic expression. I think that if you took a piece of music based off of something like seasons (as in Vivaldi's case) or of story (like "Night on Bald Mountain") it is symbolic expression. Loud passages could represent cracking ice (as in the "Four Seaons) and softer ones could symbolize a sunny day. But music that is written to be music cannot be put into words and therefore is presymbolic. It is also part of the job of the musician to interpret the music as the composer would have to correctly express what a written note means.
Hey, everyone it's Erin. I definitely think that music is in a way it's own language, a universal one. Even if a song is in a completely different language, you can still enjoy the beat and rhythm and find yourself humming the song (because you don't know the words). Universally the notes and keys and rhythms like 4/4 or 6/8 are the same when you play an instrument. And music, by itself and without words, communicates. It evokes feelings and emotions. I love playing Toccata on the piano; I am able to pound out any stress or frustration as I play. Oftentimes, I play to express what I feel inside - there are some things that you can't put into words that can only come out in music. I have to agree, though, that since you can't express or describe music in words, it is a presymbolic form of language.
Don't laugh, even though this might sound a bit silly - did anyone watch High School Musical Two? I absolutly loved it - especially the song "You Are the Music in Me." But there are two versions of the song. Troy and Gabriella sing the soft, melodic ballad while Kelsey plays the piano. Sharpay sings the reprise and takes the song way up tempo, adds background singers and stage lights.
Though the reprise had the same lyrics as the original, they sounded like two completly different songs! Sharpay's version had me up on my feet dancing in my living room!
I agree, Steph, that "the implications of words are irrelevant to the meaning articualted behing the notes."
(Did anyone else have this experience, or am I the only one?)
Hey everyone. School starts Friday. AHHH!!!
Anyway, I definitely agree with Steph, that music can symbolize human emotions and I feel like it can also be used as communication, portraying one's ideas to an audience. What you wrote reminded me of the not-in-theaters-yet movie August Rush. In the preview it stated that music is a connection between all living things. Music, just like words and body language, can be used to express one's self.
I also agree w/ Ashley about the two tempos for the same song. That happened in the first HSM too. Music is definitely used in movies to illustrate a certain mood or feeling for the audience. From the two notes used in Jaws to peppy music, to deep, mournful songs when someone dies, each influences the emotions of the audience.
Music also symbolizes events, not just communicates our feelings. We have a certain song for weddings, hymns in church, theme songs for tv shows, and a certain type of music in horror films or thrillers when you know something is about to happen like a guy jumps out from behind the door with a chainsaw. A movie could take place in broad daylight during a family picnic with a bunch of happy little elves, but once we hear the du du du du du du dududududududu, we know something is about to happen. Even if the music appears in a setting where we don't usually associate it with what's going on, we still know what the music symbolizes.
The fact that music expresses emotion is, in my opinion, the main thing that makes it interesting. From changes in keys to tempos to volumes, music fluctuates just as our feelings and thoughts do. It is in the unpredictable changes of music that those who listen to it can relate to the notes. We picture in our mind what was going through the composers mind. Music really is one way that humans can connect to humans.
Sorry to go on and on, but music also is a source of communication between animals, too. Whale mating songs are readily identified by members of the species. Same with other animals such as birds. Music expresses thoughts and emotions in a variety of ways.
Well I haven't really heard of any of the songs you guys are talking about but I can still follow what you're talking about.
I would definatley agree that the tools musicians use (tempo, time signature, pitch, etc) are forms of symbolic expression. This whole discussion made me curious, so I decided to listen to a song where the words were easy to understand (a rap song because in a lot of rock songs you can't pick out the words the singer is trying to say.)
Listening to the song (Lose Yourself by Eminem) confirmed my suspicions that the musical elements of the song were even MORE important in affecting my mood than the lyrics themselves.
The song starts out with a strong beat about 25 seconds in which made me excited and the lyrics made me even more excited. As the song went on, the beat continued so I continued to feel excited even though the lyrics (if read in poem for) would've made me feel down. For example, Eminem sings "The soul's escaping, through this hole that it's gaping" and "A normal life is boring, but superstardom's close to post mortem." These downer lyrics had no affect on my excited mood.
Does anyone realize the same thing with a different song?
I completely agree. Do we choose music for its lyrics or for its melody? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand heavy metal. I can't ever distinguish and decipher the screaming. In that case, if someone's in to heavy metal, I suppose, it's because of the actual music and tempo. Songs in different languages again are chosen for the melodies. Sometimes, however, the lyrics speak to someone, and that's why they enjoy the song.
First of all, I think that's a great quote. I agree with Ben. I think that feelings are completely seperate from words the same way I think that the words are seperate from music. When you have your head out the window of a car, or you look backwards when you're coming down from a big swing on the swingset you get this really cool feelling hahaa. and I think music can give off emotion and inspire emotion by its own accord. I think everyone has an individual sense of rythm and personality wheras words are universal. It's the way we say words that make them different (like with the Eminem song, the tempo of the words gets you pumped up, not depressed). I agree that the music itself is the most important in a song, not the words.
Going along with the question about whether it is the melody or lyrics that capture us, I think it depends on the case. I think both are important in understanding the full meaning of the song. Quoting from the movie Music and Lyrics, "the melody is like sex, but once you get to know someone, that's the lyrics." The music is what draws us in to a song, what catches our attention and then the lyrics allow the audience to get a deeper understanding of what the artist is trying to illustrate.
I guess this can be related to language. The tone of a person sets the initial mood of the conversation (if a person is monotone, angry, or excited) and then as we listen further we understand what idea the speaker wants to get across. In music and in language, both aspects influence our interest in a song or in a conversation.
After watching the "Merchants of Cool" video today in class, I started to wonder if there was anywhere we could go or anything we could do to escape the media. After serious contemplation, I couldn't come up with anything! The video (and Hayakawa's work) opened my eyes to the power of words and the fact that propaganda is ubiquitous. At first I thought music could be the escape, because music is a language all its own. Notes do not denote meaning to anything extensionally - however, music (expressed through various tempos, notes, etc) has affective connotations. Even music (especially MTV) is advertising. For example, when I hear the song "867-5309 / Jenny" on the radio, I don't think of Tommy Tutone. I think of Verizon because they aired a commercial with that song playing in the background. In a sense, music can be just as powerful if not more powerful than words.
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