Hey, it's Amy.
So Billy Bud got us thinking about justice, and is it justice to obey the law, even when you're morals are leading in the opposite direction. One of the last lines of the movie was something like "The law will exist as long as the mind exists." The law is carried out by reason, but we cannot base our decisions on reason alone, or else we are nothing more than computers. There are two types of reasoning, logical and moral. Comparing the case to a case a couple years ago, a woman and her daughter were constantly abused by her husband, and after many years of marriage and this abuse, the daughter hit the father over the head with a pan and killed him. Although the mother and daughter rejoiced the girl still served jail time, just a lesser sentence. Was it right for Billy to receive the full punishment, even though everyone considered Clagat(?) an abuser?
However, I agree that this is not a normal case and that once in uniform, an officer relinquishes his own morals and adopts those of the king or country. It's no longer his decision, he is not an individual. Just like the army willingly accepts the loss of some rights when joining the military, the officers take an oath that they serve not themselves, but the ruler or country. When Billy killed an officer, it was an attack against the king, and he should be punished for the crime from an officer stand point, even though our moral compasses point in the opposite direction.
But I did not want Billy to die and I'm really upset that he did.
6 comments:
Hey, it's Erin.
Amy, I completely agree with you - I was upset that Billy died, although I sort of figured that he would. In terms of his punishment, I agree with Donna said yesterday. We want to sympathize with Billy and think of him as "innocent" but he is not completely innocent. He did kill a man, intentionally or unintentionally, and that is a crime even outside of the military. While the case is unusual, I don't see where an exception could be made that would be "fair." If anyone else had killed Claggart, I doubt there would ever have been a trial - they would have been executed like Billy was. You can't make an exception for one and call it "justice" because justice is supposed to be fair. Yes, it is based on the specific case at hand, but in that case someone was killed.
Hey guys, it's Jasmine.
I think Herman Melville did a really good job making his readers (or in our case, viewers) think about human morals and justice. After all, he was a Romantic writer who was put together with Poe in the "human psychology" section of our notes. Amy - I definitely agree with you when you say that if humans were to follow the law without using morals, they would be nothing more than computers. If the formula were that simple (killing someone = automatic death penalty), we wouldn't need courts or juries. We are humans, though, and we don't work well with absolutes. For us, there's always a gray area between "right" and "wrong." Is it "wrong" to kill someone during the act of self-defense? You've probably heard of the "battered woman syndrome" - when a long-abused wife finally kills her husband. This is similar to Billy Bud's case.
Billy Bud definitely brings up a lot of difficult questions. Melville wanted his readers to really think about how justice and the laws fit in with our morals. I think the other part of the ending of the movie said that morals will exist as long as the human soul exists (and the law will exist as long as the mind exists, like Amy said). These two (human morals and the human mind) cannot ever be separated, because we're not robots or computers. The struggle between our morals and the laws is part of what makes us human.
That being said, I have a few more questions. Is it wrong to disobey immoral laws? Is civil disobedience (like during the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's) something to be praised or condemned? Should morals be chosen over laws in this case?
On another note, I was also pretty upset that Billy died. I kept expecting other crew members to go save him, or for Captain Vere to let him go. I'm too used to watching modern movies with happy endings :)
I agree with everyone and just in response to Jasmine I think that's a great question that people should always keep in the front of their minds. I don't think we can always just accept the laws we are given. I think being a good citizen involves, questioning the laws that are set before us. If we have to follow them, they should be what we believe to be morally right. Obviously our morals and what we believe changes as we can see with the abolition of slavery and the civil rights movement. Our system of law is all about liberty, and the freedom to make your voice heard.
I disagree with Erin that you can't make an exception and still call it justice. I think if the circumstances are taken into account under the law that the justice system should be able to decide the aplicability of a law.
Yes justice is supposed to be fair, which is why all of the situation should be taken into account. Usually there are varying degrees of punishment that are entirely dependent on the circumstances. I mean yes Claggert was killed, but the ship doctor also said that he had a very thin skull and that he could have died at any time from a hit. You cannot tell me that, that is the same as a ship mate sneaking up behind Claggert at night and stabbing him in the back. However, the captain did say that even punching an officer was punishable by death so i understand that that puts Billy back where he was, as if he had intended to kill Claggert.
Taking a page from Anne of Green Gables haha soo long ago but I do kinda agree that sad endings speak louder than happy ones.
omg, that was Cristy (above with the Anne of Green Gables comment)
Erin again :)
I agree with Cristy that the individual situation should always be taken into account. My point was that in this situation, the fact that Billy hit Claggart was enough reason for him to be executed, let alone the fact that he killed him. If anyone else had hit Claggart, they most likely would have died without a trial.
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